You have to change the culture. Will UW do that? I don't know but as is even with new window dressing is a bad plan if that's what they do. Just saying.
Next Badgers Football Coach
- Thread starter Mark87
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No it won’t. Not until the administration invests in that culture. Put more $$ into staff. Put more money into facilities.
Look at Iowa State. Campbell changed the culture within the program but where is it now? It’s 0-3 in conference after underachieving last year. Unless you get the horses good luck.
This was actually a great discussion on Game Day Saturday about culture. It’s just a data point to elevate the program.
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One look at the Wisconsin recruiting budget and you can tell immediately it was nothing more than a program to recruit locally. If it was an overnight trip by car, it was rare. It was out and back, on the same day, without flying. Gas mileage and meals only. You can't reach out and get quality players for your program by doing that. The area they've recruited has not produced the numbers, and never will, when football is treated like a 3 month high school sport up north, and a 12 month sport when you head south. The experience, and coaching level, is so different between the two.
Even if Wisconsin doubled their investment in recruiting, if they didn't get rid of this idea that most of their recruiting had to be a stone's throw from Madison, they won't change the culture.
If Jim Leonhard is made coach, I hope he understands that, and makes sure they improve their reach. It's going to take time, getting results, but when they start to get inroads into more areas around the country, their level of recruit will improve.
If they don't make the change, we're going to be nothing more than an also-ran.
Even if Wisconsin doubled their investment in recruiting, if they didn't get rid of this idea that most of their recruiting had to be a stone's throw from Madison, they won't change the culture.
If Jim Leonhard is made coach, I hope he understands that, and makes sure they improve their reach. It's going to take time, getting results, but when they start to get inroads into more areas around the country, their level of recruit will improve.
If they don't make the change, we're going to be nothing more than an also-ran.
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That’s they only recruit Wisconsin is a bit of a myth. Looking at the 2021 and 2022 classes and the 2021 class was ranked 16th nationally, 21 kids signed with UW and 5 were in state products. The 2022 class, 4 of the 14 kids were in state and if you want to include Issac Ham who had some admissions issues it’s 5 of 15. Now do they want to put build a wall around the state sure, that began with Alvarez and continued with BB to some extent.
As to BB, he did make some inroads in Florida especially WPB and South Florida but like any school not named OSU or Michigan that’s a big leap. The issues is not just bodies on the road it’s also the UW philosophy that you recruit to your system and develop kids. The problem has been to a great extent development, when you have a 4 Star kid Bollers not getting snaps and Logan Brown being a backup that’s a red flag to me. And Khalif made reference to philosophy as much as resources when he left.
As to BB, he did make some inroads in Florida especially WPB and South Florida but like any school not named OSU or Michigan that’s a big leap. The issues is not just bodies on the road it’s also the UW philosophy that you recruit to your system and develop kids. The problem has been to a great extent development, when you have a 4 Star kid Bollers not getting snaps and Logan Brown being a backup that’s a red flag to me. And Khalif made reference to philosophy as much as resources when he left.
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Please! Look at the budget over the years for recruiting. Look at the vast majority of kids being brought in for a look-see. The level of recruiting, outside of our 4 state area is horrible. We can send letters to 100 candidates, but unless we go to them, watch them, and nurture an environment where we want them to join the program, it means nothing.
You have got to get out there, stay out there digging, and do the road work to make it happen. You need to show the players, and their high school coaches, that you really mean the best for their players. Making inroads into a school should create a better inroad for the future.
I hope they don't have your philosophy on this. It would mean you just continue being a bridesmaid, because that's all you believe you'd ever be. I've never bought into that mentality, and never will. I believe you can be as good as you want, as long as you do the work, and make it so. To be one of the best, at recruiting, you need assistant coaches who cut their teeth on being so damned good at their job both on and off the field, that their words take meaning in every household they visit, and field they go to watch kids play. Their word, and their attitude, can go a long way towards getting a kid into your school.
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Yep I’ve seen the budget. That said you also have to understand who you are and Khalif attempted to change that philosophy and it got nowhere. It was so much more that bodies in the field it was a what kids do you target and how. He was very specific to that in his “exit” interview a couple of years ago
Wisconsin has some built in disadvantages that are glaring. #1 entrance and course load are above NCAA guidelines. #2 the facilities are at best average. Weight room and such are ok but it’s like staying at a Marriott Courtyard and OSU is putting you at the Four Seasons. #3 as Mark has said frequently Wisconsin is an acquired taste. It’s not for every kid.
It’s not about striving to be the bride or bridesmaid. It’s about realistic expectations about competing on and off the field vs OSU or Michigan or even PSU. This is not new breaking news. It’s been that way since The Emperor came from South Bend. Sure there are perfect storm seasons like 2017, or years you beat OSU.
As to OSU that program is so much better what Tressell had, it’d on par with Alabama and Georgia, probably a notch below but not much. If alumni or fans are waiting for UW to compete for Nattys they will be disappointed for years. Would I like to see it sure but it won’t happen in my lifetime. The B1G is again becoming the Big 2 and little 8 as it was called before expansion. Sorry if that’s harsh but look at the product on the field
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I keep hearing how Wisconsin's entrance requirements are so high. For openers, they aren't any higher than Ohio State, and not as tough as Michigan. You can check that out on the internet. I did. Includes ACT, and SAT 25/75, GPA, and admissions percentages. All three schools believe in holistic admissions as well, which includes athletic proficiency. Wisconsin has chosen to use the holistic approach in other areas, looking at athletics as somewhat of an outsider to academia. The other two, just like Notre Dame, Penn State, MSU, and pretty much all the better teams playing football place a tremendous amount of value on holistics. In the south, it's a very big factor with sports.
I don't advise Wisconsin to open it up completely, but I'd at least advise them to use a more competitive evaluation based on holistics.
But, if we want to be intellectual snobs, we can continue to pretend we are. Meanwhile, schools like Stanford, Duke, and others will continue to use this approach to stock their shelves with top notch players in their own respectively favored sports. How in hell do you think Duke stocks those basketball unis, considering their admission policies are far tougher than Wisconsin's? Yet, we'll turn our noses up, and watch quality players go uninvited because someone thinks they're better than that kid who's looking for an opportunity to make a decent life for himself, playing football, which in a lot of cases is his escape from what will not be a great life without college, and possibly the sport.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
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And OSU has for years pushed athletes thru admissions with lower scores. Also I mentioned class loads. Wisconsin requirements are a bit higher than most on core requirements to stay eligible. It’s not just test scores, Gary Anderson learned that really fast
As to Duke, it’s much easier to hand out 5-7 scholarships in hoops than 82 in football. Hell Vandy has had some competitive teams in hoops over the years. And when was Stanford relevant in football. Since 2019 they are 12-23 and prior to that had records comparable to Wisconsin.
I hate beating a dead horse for years Wisconsin was one of a handful of schools that did not accept partial qualifiers. I’m not sure today if Clay gets accepted and Issac Ham is still not enrolled and going to Madison Tech to qualify. And that’s a 4 star kid everyone was after including ND
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You don't have to hand out 82 scholarships using the holistic approach. I don't think any of them do. You just need to hand out a few to strengthen you in your recruiting. It's not a all or nothing thing. It isn't for Notre Dame. Even Stanford is more open with holistic reviews.
Potential recruits in high school are told which avenues will add to their resume for acceptance. In some areas, the high schools work to get the kids involved. It could be anything from working in a soup kitchen for a few nights and weekends to helping with Habitat for Humanity. I know of one kid who worked on both of those, plus helped out at a Children's Hospital, and ended up getting a scholarship in a school that would never have even looked at his submittal.
Sorry! All these "pure" schools aren't that damned pure. I sure don't believe Duke is something special when they hand out scholarships for basketball on holistics, and don't do it with football. That's hypocrisy. Wisconsin has a choice. Give up on sports, or make it pay, by getting into the pig trough with everyone else. If they don't get in there, kiss sports goodbye as being competitive. Then you can say you've got smarter kids, and a hell of a lot of millions coming in from donors, and not all of it has been for sports.
Potential recruits in high school are told which avenues will add to their resume for acceptance. In some areas, the high schools work to get the kids involved. It could be anything from working in a soup kitchen for a few nights and weekends to helping with Habitat for Humanity. I know of one kid who worked on both of those, plus helped out at a Children's Hospital, and ended up getting a scholarship in a school that would never have even looked at his submittal.
Sorry! All these "pure" schools aren't that damned pure. I sure don't believe Duke is something special when they hand out scholarships for basketball on holistics, and don't do it with football. That's hypocrisy. Wisconsin has a choice. Give up on sports, or make it pay, by getting into the pig trough with everyone else. If they don't get in there, kiss sports goodbye as being competitive. Then you can say you've got smarter kids, and a hell of a lot of millions coming in from donors, and not all of it has been for sports.
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Please TW, doing work for Habitat for Humanity of some charity is not getting some athlete thru the admission process. It might get Debbie from Brown Deer into UW with a 3.8 over a kid with no resume with the same academic credentials
And it’s not even a holistic approach. Hell it could have been as simple as adding partial qualifiers. And it’s not like Duke football has been relevant either. As I have said many schools get more lenient with admissions. UW is not one of those institutions.
Let’s start with core class requirements both on admissions and during your time at UW. Both currently are above NCAA guidelines. I can give you 85 million reasons no school in the B1G will give up on sports. I’m not naive enough to know the administrative support for athletics now is not what it was under Donna S.