NFL owners approve 25-yard touchback rule, change in injured reserve designation

Packinatl said:
Many players are 2 french fries short of a happy meal. They believe what coaches tell them that they are looking out for their safety. Oh please. Only thing that mattered to the league, teams and front office was wins and money. They hid what the dangers were. Why? Money. Players are like a piece of meat. Use them for a few years. Then next man up. If the league knew the dangers why hide it? Players see a rainbow with $$$ at the end. Yes many are naive. Very few see the reward
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If you're going to be stupid and beat up, at least be stupid, beat up, and rich. Think of the really dangerous jobs where the potential consequences are known, and the participants are paid less than California's impending minimum wage.
 
Half Empty said:
If you're going to be stupid and beat up, at least be stupid, beat up, and rich. Think of the really dangerous jobs where the potential consequences are known, and the participants are paid less than California's impending minimum wage.
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The vast majority of NFL players don't get rich. Sure the elite guys cash in but that's a small minority. Most have 3-4 year careers, minimal signing bonus $$. But on the flip side not one owner is poor. And never will be owning an NFL team.
 
Gosh, if it's that dangerous, and they don't get rich, why don't they get a different job - military, fire, police, et. al.? Also, probably need to define 'rich'. 21 current Packers alone have GUARANTEED earnings of over a million, just for showing up for work.
 
Half Empty said:
Gosh, if it's that dangerous, and they don't get rich, why don't they get a different job - military, fire, police, et. al.? Also, probably need to define 'rich'. 21 current Packers alone have GUARANTEED earnings of over a million, just for showing up for work.
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Because they are playing for the dream. Sure they can make a million in one year but one knee injury can end a career. Rich is all relative. In NY Chi or LA a million is not much. Even Miami or Dallas or Houston. Athletes are wired different. They see the $20m everyone. deals and think it's there for everyone.
 
I understand and agree, Pack. And I feel somewhat sorry for them that so many of them were raised in an insulated, parallel universe where they never had to learn the realities of life. But at the same time, ultimately I tend to believe that everyone is responsible for the choices they make in life, and the consequences of those choices. And I have very limited sympathy for anyone who "earns" several million dollars before their 30th birthday and winds up with nothing to show for it because they made foolish decisions.

Tough break, dude; and no, I don't want fries with that.
 
Frozen Tundra said:
I understand and agree, Pack. And I feel somewhat sorry for them that so many of them were raised in an insulated, parallel universe where they never had to learn the realities of life. But at the same time, ultimately I tend to believe that everyone is responsible for the choices they make in life, and the consequences of those choices. And I have very limited sympathy for anyone who "earns" several million dollars before their 30th birthday and winds up with nothing to show for it because they made foolish decisions.

Tough break, dude; and no, I don't want fries with that.
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That was not the point I was trying to make. The point is the percentage of those under 30 in the NFL that make millions is very small. And the ones who don't, they don't end up at McDonalds
We have all, we'll many of us have chased dreams.
And be honest with yourself. How many of us who would earn $1 m a year or more under 30 would live a $50k lifestyle. I knew of one kid who was drafted, top 3 Rounds who never had a bank account in his life. His agent had to take him to the bank to open an account. I don't blame the kid for that.
But taking that Full circle on this subject. The league done not care. They never cared about player safety until it hit their pocketbook.
 
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Oh, I got your point. I wasn't arguing with you; I was more going off on a tangent. I agree with everything you said, for the most part - but I would point out that while it's true most NFL players don't literally wind up working at MacDonald's, the National Bureau of Economic Research reports that 1 out of 6 do declare bankruptcy, and 78% experience some degree of severe financial stress within a few years of leaving football. So I think it's a fair point.

I know you've told that story before, and I have no trouble believing it. I'm sure it's not an isolated incident, either. And yeah, I agree that nobody could reasonably expect a 20-something millionaire to live a 50k a year lifestyle. But I don't think it's asking too much to hold them accountable if they don't do anything at all to set aside some money or give themselves some financial security after they retire. Those are basic money management skills we expect every young adult to be able to learn - why should we expect a kid who works at an average job to manage his money responsibly, but not expect it of an athlete? With that kind of money, there's no reason they can't make some provisions for their future, and if they don't, then yeah - I do blame them the same as I would anyone else.

There's a huge middle ground between "living a 50K lifestyle" and blowing every penny you earn within a few months. I see no reason that an athlete shouldn't be able to find a comfortable spot somewhere in that middle ground. Yes, I know they haven't learned many good lessons from their life experiences, but part of being an adult is learning how to make adult decisions. If you don't, you suffer the consequences, same as anyone else.

I also agree that the league bears some responsibility for helping players plan for the future, but how much are they supposed to do? How much can they do? They already have programs to connect players with financial planners and other professionals to help them plan for their future and make the transition, don't they? How good are these programs? Could they be better? That's an honest question, because I don't know the answer. i just know that the league does have such programs in place.

It's just odd that this subject came up tonight, because it parallels a conversation I had with our attorney a few hours ago. He was driving his family down to Florida for a few days in the sun, and called me from his car to discuss a case he's handling for us. Even short discussions always become a long conversation with him, and we chatted for about an hour. One of the things he said, that he's told us before, is how much he loves working with us. He keeps telling us that he's never had any clients who do so much to help him prepare - says most people just come in and dump a pile of stuff on his desk and say, "here, sort it out and sue somebody or something." He said that he loves working with us because when we bring him an issue, we've thoroughly documented every single detail and compiled it and indexed it to the last punctuation mark; he gives us a great rate because he doesn't have to pay paralegals to help him sort our cases out - we're his paralegals, and he says we do a better job than any other client he's ever had, and better than a lot of attorneys would do.

And every time he tells us that, it just blows me away. Because we don't think we're doing anything special at all - it's just plain common sense. We spend dozens, scores of hours making sure we research every detail, look up all the applicable laws, find precedents, vet our case to see how the relevant laws apply to it, check each other's work, and then pass it on to him to let him review it all and decide on the best strategy to go forward. I can't understand why anyone would hire a top notch attorney to help them resolve matters worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars, and do almost nothing at all to help him prepare. I just shake my head and wonder what the heck people are thinking, that they don't take responsibility for doing everything they possibly can to cover all their bases for the future.

I just tell him that the way we look at is is that we're all a team - my wife and I can't litigate, but we can research and compile data till the cows come home. She's a former med student; she's a freaking genius at it. He, on the other hand, doesn't have time to waste on that crap - that's a total waste of his talents. He's the legal expert and the courtroom gunslinging litigator - that's his role, what he brings to the team. Our role is to do everything we possibly can to make his job as easy as it can possibly be, so that he can arrive at the best possible outcome. Just plain common sense.

And yeah, I was the same way when I was in my 20s. And my wife is 38 now, but she's been the same way for as long as I've known her, which was her mid-20s. We're not legal or financial geniuses by any means, but we plan ahead and do everything we possibly can to ensure the best possible outcome for our futures. We're not rocket scientists, and we're not rich, and probably nowhere near as successful in life as a lot of other people on this forum, but we take responsibility for our lives and try to ensure the best possible future for ourselves. We make mistakes that cost us a lot of money, and probably do a lot of things completely wrong, but at least we try our best to do the smart thing.

It's not that I don't sympathize with people who are unable to do that, or even unwilling to do it - but I have to admit, my sympathy is somewhat limited. We weren't born knowing how to do that. We learned it on our own - granted, with a lot of good examples from my German father and her Chinese parents, who taught us a lot about hard work and responsibility, but still. We both left home on our own when we were teenagers (me at 17, she at 16) and built our own lives. If other people choose not to take their futures as seriously as we do ours, that's their prerogative, but they have to own that and live with the consequences of their decision.
 
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Tundra, well said. (though sometimes your posts are loooong).;)

Pack- you argue the exception, very very few people have employers who sit down and help you set up everything from checking accounts to retirement plans. That's stuff we are to figure out on our own.
Yes, the NFL owners are greedy pigs. Yes, they use up their resources (players) and move on. But, they have set up different programs trying to expose the problems and possible solutions to some of the difficulties the rookies might be presented with. The players also have agents who should be helping them, but I never read where you hold them accountable.

Life is hard work for a great majority of people. Sometimes it's hard to sympathize with people who can make more in 4-5 years than I'll make in a lifetime. Truth is perspective.
 
I guess I did not express my point clearly enough. The original point of this thread was rule changes. And how they related to player safety. But some fans think it's went too far. My point was the league and yes that includes owners have used players over the years knowing the risks and hiding them. And players have chased a dream for years to not knowing it. But the bigger point is such a small percentage of players entering the league are set for life or even close.

About 2,600 players each year enter OTAs each year. At any point their career could end. And guess what. Most will have nothing to show for it. No guarantee money. No signing bonus for most. Then there are the guys who sign 4-5 year contracts. Well injury can end that at any time. Or they Dan be cut / released and never see the full value of their contract. And more than a few of them leave with permanent injuries. Yes it's a violent game. But for decades the league thought profits were more important and teams thought wins were. Never did they dare about the core product that made this league. The players. Yes I have sympathy for guys who risked their long term health not knowing the real risks that their employers were hiding. Some may never live a normal life. Sorry but to me that's as important as money.
 
The period of 'we know, but we're not telling' is gone. If you want to harp on a time when management purposely let the players risk permanent damage, unknowingly, there are probably very few here who would argue the point. There was also the same sort of period for asbestos, smoking, radium watches and probably a lot of others. Far enough back, nobody knew there was danger, and hence nobody was really to blame. Now, there's no question of the danger, and safeguards are in place. Somewhere in between, the dangers started to surface and were most likely ignored by those making a profit. So, how does affect the present?

And, don't forget that the reason there are 2600 guys looking to make a team every year is because they WANT to, for money, fame, love of the game, whatever. In just the last year or two, more have opted out prematurely than ever before. That's an option, and it always has been. And, money may be as important as a normal life for guys who otherwise are looking at really poor alternatives.
 
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